Legislature(2001 - 2002)

02/22/2002 01:10 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 396 - ALCOHOL OFFENSE SURCHARGE/EQUIPMENT FUND                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1971                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE BILL  NO.  396,  "An Act  relating  to  a surcharge  on                                                               
certain offenses for law enforcement  equipment."  He then called                                                               
an at-ease from 1:45 p.m. to 1:46 p.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1972                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HEATHER  M. NOBREGA,  Staff  to  Representative Norman  Rokeberg,                                                               
House Judiciary Standing Committee,  Alaska State Legislature, on                                                               
behalf of the House Judiciary  Standing Committee, sponsor, noted                                                               
that  HB 396  is  referred to  as  the Justin  Wollam  Act.   She                                                               
explained  that HB  396  would  create a  $100  surcharge on  any                                                               
offense  listed  under  Title  4,  which  pertains  to  alcoholic                                                               
beverages; under Title  28, which pertains to  motor vehicles and                                                               
ingestion or possession of alcohol  as an element of the offense;                                                               
or  under any  regulation  or municipal  ordinance authorized  by                                                               
Title 28 that  has to do with ingestion or  possession of alcohol                                                               
as an  element of  the offense.   She  noted that  this surcharge                                                               
money  would  go   into  the  general  fund  (GF)   and  then  be                                                               
appropriated  by the  legislature to  the Alaska  alcohol offense                                                               
equipment  fund  ("the  fund"),  which  would  then  be  used  by                                                               
municipalities and  the Department  of Public Safety  to purchase                                                               
law enforcement  equipment that would  assist in  enforcement and                                                               
prevention of alcohol-related offenses.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked how much money would be raised.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked  whether there is a fiscal  note attached to                                                               
HB 396.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. NOBREGA said that there  is an indeterminate fiscal note from                                                               
the  Public Defender  Agency  and  a zero  fiscal  note from  the                                                               
Alaska Court System.   She remarked that she  could only estimate                                                               
how much  money has been  collected under the  existing surcharge                                                               
statute, not how much would be collected under HB 396.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   COGHILL  mentioned   that  getting   money  from                                                               
indigent offenders could prove difficult.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. NOBREGA remarked  that both HB 396 and  the current surcharge                                                               
statute have  a provision  that allows  an individual  to perform                                                               
community work service (CWS) in lieu of paying the surcharge.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG asked  whether minors  who commit  offenses under                                                               
Title 4 would be entitled to  a jury trial before being sentenced                                                               
to [CWS].                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. NOBREGA reminded  members that according to  the [1995 Alaska                                                               
Court of Appeals] Booth decision,  as long as performing [CWS] is                                                             
not mandatory and is merely an  option, a jury trial would not be                                                               
required.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2235                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MATT  WILLIAMS,  Officer,   Anchorage  Police  Department  (APD),                                                               
Municipality of Anchorage (MOA),  testified via teleconference in                                                               
support of HB 396.  He elaborated:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     This bill  is one that  we believe has been  needed for                                                                    
     some time.   The people of Alaska ...  deserve the best                                                                    
     possible   enforcement   of   their   law,   and   this                                                                    
     legislation will  help in  that.   One thing  that this                                                                    
     bill  will help  with is  that on  the passage  of this                                                                    
     bill and the  conviction of somebody under  Title 4 and                                                                    
     Title 28,  a person  most responsible  for the  crime -                                                                    
     the  defendant -  will help  pay  for the  cost of  the                                                                    
     equipment  used  in  combating  the  very  crimes  that                                                                    
     they've  [been] committing.    This  type of  equipment                                                                    
     most  likely will  be, but  is not  limited to,  in-car                                                                    
     video  recording   systems,  portable   breath  testers                                                                    
     [PBTs],  intoximeters, radars,  and  lasers; all  these                                                                    
     devices play  different roles in dealing  with criminal                                                                    
     behavior involving alcohol, [and] all are important.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     ... The  purpose of  in-car video  systems ...  will be                                                                    
     evidentiary; a  picture is worth  a thousand words.   I                                                                    
     could describe the  incident to a jury  in great detail                                                                    
     until I'm blue in the  face, but [with] them being able                                                                    
     to  see it  on video,  it's  possible for  the jury  to                                                                    
     really  see   the  incident  as  it's   happening,  for                                                                    
     themselves,  and for  them to  make their  own decision                                                                    
     accordingly.  Another major purpose  of in-car video is                                                                    
     officer safety;  this video allows  us to see  what the                                                                    
     vehicle  that's stopped  looks like,  what the  license                                                                    
     plate [number]  is, [and] possibly  what the  driver or                                                                    
     the  occupants  of the  car  look  like, [so  that]  if                                                                    
     something happens to the officer,  we'd be able to have                                                                    
     a starting  point to track  down suspects based  on the                                                                    
     information  gleaned  from the  video.    And also  the                                                                    
     incidents that are captured on  video could possibly be                                                                    
     used for training in the future.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS continued:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Another device  that would  possibly be  purchased with                                                                    
     these funds  are the [PBTs].   Portable  breath testers                                                                    
     are miniature  intoximeters that  officers are  able to                                                                    
     carry  in their  patrol  cars for  immediate uses  when                                                                    
     they're   needed.     Portable  breath   testers  allow                                                                    
     officers to check  the sobriety of minors  ... at large                                                                    
     parties or  school functions when police  are called to                                                                    
     those  functions;  they  also  allow us  to  check  the                                                                    
     sobriety of people [who are  on] probation when we come                                                                    
     in contact with them.   And [PBTs] are always available                                                                    
     because  they  are  always  in  an  officer's  car  for                                                                    
     whatever situation may arise.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2387                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     And  some other  equipment,  the radars  and lasers  --                                                                    
     greater uses of these  devices along our highways allow                                                                    
     for greater  traffic enforcement, which in  turn allows                                                                    
     us to deal with other  crimes that are discovered after                                                                    
     the  initial traffic  stop ...  through the  contact of                                                                    
     the officer with  the driver [or] the  occupants of the                                                                    
     car, [and]  their observations  of what  they're seeing                                                                    
     inside the car.  ...  All these pieces of equipment are                                                                    
     expensive  and budgets  are tight,  and this  law would                                                                    
     help us  to begin  to cover some  of the  funding gaps.                                                                    
     So, as a police officer  myself, and from all the other                                                                    
     police officers  in the [APD],  we urge you to  work on                                                                    
     this bill  - make it  as effective as possible  so that                                                                    
     we  can begin  to  purchase these  equipment items  and                                                                    
     become more effective for our  own safety and citizens'                                                                    
     safety, and be more efficient.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS concluded:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     To  answer one  of the  questions that  you had  before                                                                    
     about how much money we  could possibly expect to bring                                                                    
     in:   the only figures  that I have are  [from] arrests                                                                    
     that were  made in  the municipality between  July 1st,                                                                    
     2000,  and June  30th, 2001.    There were  a total  of                                                                    
     1,773 DWI  [Driving While  Intoxicated] arrests  in the                                                                    
     municipality during  that time;  that comes out  to 4.8                                                                    
     [arrests] a  day.   Now, how many  of those  were state                                                                    
     charges, I do not know,  and how many were municipal, I                                                                    
     don't know  that either, but  more than  likely, mostly                                                                    
     municipal.  ... Those are  the only figures I have, but                                                                    
     based on those, it has  a very big possibility of being                                                                    
     a pretty decent amount of money.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG asked:   What  other alcohol  offenses are  there                                                               
besides DWI and impairment and minor in possession?                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILLIAMS noted  that Title  4 also  covers offenses  such as                                                               
being intoxicated in a bar and "drunk on premises."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked:   What about licensure  provisions in Title                                                               
4?                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-21, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2496                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG continued:   Aren't  there license  offenses that                                                               
might rise to the level of a crime?                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2489                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WALT   MONEGAN,  Chief,   Anchorage   Police  Department   (APD),                                                               
Municipality  of Anchorage  (MOA), testified  via teleconference,                                                               
explaining that  on a fairly  regular basis, the APD  assists the                                                               
Alcohol Beverage  Control (ABC)  Board in doing  premises checks,                                                               
and  these  premises  can  be  monitored  for  license  and  code                                                               
violations with  the use  of the  [PBTs].  Use  of the  [PBTs] in                                                               
this manner aids the APD in keeping the community safe.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  asked the APD  representatives whether,                                                               
over time, the number of DWI offenses is being reduced.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MONEGAN  said that  as  the  population  grows, the  APD  is                                                               
actually seeing  more violations,  although not in  proportion to                                                               
the population  growth because there  are a lot of  agencies that                                                               
have helped heighten awareness and mitigate the growth of DWIs.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked Mr.  Monegan whether he thinks the                                                               
APD has adequate resources, in  terms of "material" and officers,                                                               
to handle the problem to his satisfaction.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MONEGAN replied that he would have  to say no.  He added that                                                               
the reason  for that response  relates to the fact  that although                                                               
the "in-car video"  is such a [valuable] tool, as  relayed by Mr.                                                               
Williams, the APD does not have  enough of this type of equipment                                                               
to be able to  put one in every patrol car.   If the in-car video                                                               
could become standard issue for all  patrol cars, it would have a                                                               
significant impact on the conviction rate.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  asked how  many more in-car  videos and                                                               
how many  more officers would  be needed,  and what would  be the                                                               
total  cost.   He  said that  his frustration  with  the way  the                                                               
DWI/alcohol problem is  currently approached is that  it tends to                                                               
be  "with little  band-aids,  one  piece at  a  time, instead  of                                                               
getting aggressive and going after it completely."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MONEGAN relayed  that he has about 200  uniformed officers on                                                               
patrol, each  with his/her own car,  but only about a  half dozen                                                               
if  those  cars  are  equipped  with in-car  video.    "It  would                                                               
certainly aid  me to  have a significant  portion of  [those] 200                                                               
[cars] ...  equipped," he  said, adding that  adoption of  HB 396                                                               
would help  defray the  costs of  such equipment.   They  are not                                                               
cheap, he noted, costing approximately $5,500 apiece.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ asked  whether there  were an  adequate                                                               
number of officers.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2304                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MONEGAN  replied that although [adequate]  staffing is always                                                               
an  issue, DWI  offenses are  a priority  and are  something that                                                               
"we'll find  regardless of  how many  or how  few officers  we do                                                               
have."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked what the cost of a PBT is.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MONEGAN said it is about $500.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked what cost is for a new intoximeter.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MONEGAN said  that the APD is  utilizing DataMaster machines,                                                               
but  he'd not  brought figures  relating to  cost with  him.   In                                                               
response  to questions,  he confirmed  that a  PBT result  is not                                                               
satisfactory for  use in  court, and that  those results  are not                                                               
used for DWI  arrests; PBTs are used in  situations pertaining to                                                               
minor consuming and liqueur license  violations.  He said that in                                                               
some instances, an  officer will use the PBT simply  as an aid in                                                               
determining  whether there  is probable  cause, particularly  now                                                               
that  the  blood  alcohol  concentration  [BAC]  limit  has  been                                                               
lowered to .08.   In response to further questions,  he said that                                                               
the APD is  very much in support  of the .08 BAC  limit, and that                                                               
it has  been an  aid to  the community;  "we do  not want  to see                                                               
people  hurt or  killed because  of  drunk driving."   He  noted,                                                               
however, that  he did  not have the  current statistics  with him                                                               
regarding arrests  for DWI  at the  .08 BAC  level, but  would be                                                               
happy to research that information for the committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked  Mr. Monegan whether he  had any suggestions                                                               
regarding the collection and allocation of surcharge monies.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MONEGAN  indicated  that  the  deputy  commissioner  of  the                                                               
Department of  Public Safety  had mentioned  to him  that perhaps                                                               
the  monies  could go  to  the  Alaska Police  Standards  Council                                                               
(APSC), which  would then  grant the  monies to  various [police]                                                               
departments.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2056                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARTI  GREESON, Executive  Director,  Anchorage Chapter,  Mothers                                                               
Against Drunk  Driving (MADD), testified via  teleconference, and                                                               
said  that   MADD  supports  HB   396,  which  would   provide  a                                                               
consistent,  ongoing  source of  funding  for  public safety  and                                                               
current enforcement technology.   Offenders would be contributing                                                               
directly to enforcement, and  enforcement contributes directly to                                                               
prevention.   Public safety should  never be  compromised because                                                               
of  budgetary shortfalls,  she opined,  adding that  HB 396  is a                                                               
perfect example of restorative justice.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1995                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CINDY  CASHEN,  Juneau  Chapter, Mothers  Against  Drunk  Driving                                                               
(MADD),  reiterated that  MADD Alaska  chapters  support HB  396.                                                               
She added  that as [the  family member of]  a victim [of  a drunk                                                               
driver], she  will always wonder  whether such a fund  would have                                                               
made  a difference  in catching  the man  who killed  her father,                                                               
before he rammed his  truck into the car her father  was in.  She                                                               
opined that  HB 396  will make  a difference  [for others  in the                                                               
future], and encouraged its passage.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1947                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROYCE  WELLER, Special  Assistant,  Office  of the  Commissioner,                                                               
Department  of  Public  Safety  (DPS),  indicated  that  the  DPS                                                               
recognizes  and appreciates  the ultimate  sacrifice made  by APD                                                               
officer Justin  Wollam.  In  answer to  the question of  how much                                                               
money HB  396 might generate,  he said  that although the  DPS is                                                               
still  waiting for  a complete  Alaska Public  Safety Information                                                               
Network (APSIN)  report, his estimate  is that the  proposed $100                                                               
surcharge could perhaps  generate up to $350,000.   He mentioned,                                                               
however, that  there is a  concern that because  monies generated                                                               
under the current surcharge statute  fund the APSC for activities                                                               
such  as in-service  training and  academy training,  and because                                                               
there  may be  overlapping offenders,  funds currently  generated                                                               
for  regular APSC  purposes might  be reallocated  to the  Alaska                                                               
alcohol offense equipment fund.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked Mr. Weller  to explain the current surcharge                                                               
statute - AS 12.55.039.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WELLER replied that the  surcharges listed under AS 12.55.039                                                               
are the  only ones that fund  the APSC and have  a graduated rate                                                               
depending on the offense.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1736                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
IRL  STAMBAUGH,  Executive   Director,  Alaska  Police  Standards                                                               
Council  (APSC), Department  of Public  Safety (DPS),  added that                                                               
under AS  12.55.039, there  is a $10  surcharge for  citations, a                                                               
$50  surcharge for  most misdemeanors,  a $75  surcharge for  DWI                                                               
offenses, and a $100 surcharge  for felony offenses, all of which                                                               
currently go  to the  APSC.   He mentioned  that last  year these                                                               
surcharges  generated about  $960,000  for the  APSC, with  about                                                               
one-third each  going to  administrative costs,  academy funding,                                                               
and in-service advanced training.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked what the fine was for a DWI offense.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG  said that it depends.   There is an  initial fine                                                               
of $250, and the first two offenses are misdemeanors.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  asked what  the rate  of collection  is and                                                               
whether offenders' permanent fund  dividends (PFDs) could be used                                                               
as "collateral" if they don't pay.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG remarked that the  DPS is probably not the correct                                                               
department to get that type of information from.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER replied that his  point is that if fines are                                                               
not currently being collected, adding  another surcharge will not                                                               
improve matters,  although he did  acknowledge that  "anything is                                                               
better than nothing."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG mentioned  that other  legislation the  committee                                                               
has heard would raise the fines  for DWI offenses.  He noted that                                                               
"a surcharge  is always  on top  of the  statutory fines."   With                                                               
regard to the question of whether  PFDs can be used to pay monies                                                               
owed, he  said that  the Department of  Law (DOL)  is responsible                                                               
for collecting  all fines and  assessments, other than  ones that                                                               
are initially collected by the courts.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1598                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  WOOLIVER,  Administrative Attorney,  Administrative  Staff,                                                               
Office  of  the  Administrative  Director,  Alaska  Court  System                                                               
(ACS), in response to a question, said:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The  trouble right  now is  [that] fines  do go  to the                                                                    
     Department of  Law for collection  - fines,  of course,                                                                    
     [are] not the  same as surcharges -  but our accounting                                                                    
     system, as  it is, can't transmit  the surcharge itself                                                                    
     for collection.  Now, as  you know, we're getting a new                                                                    
     computer system, [at] which time  they will be able to.                                                                    
     But as of right now,  although technically you could go                                                                    
     after  a  [PFD] for  a  surcharge,  we don't  have  the                                                                    
     technical capability to do that, but we will....                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG mentioned  that the courts collect  bail and fines                                                               
that are paid right then and there.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOLIVER said that is  correct, and confirmed that any unpaid                                                               
fines or assessments get forwarded onto the DOL for collections.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked whether the ACS collects any surcharges.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOLIVER said  that the ACS does collect  surcharges, but any                                                               
that  aren't  paid  to  the court  system  are  not  subsequently                                                               
transferred to the DOL for collection  due to a lack of technical                                                               
capability.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL asked  whether the  ten-day timeframe  in                                                               
which the surcharge must be paid is sufficient for the ACS.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOOLIVER indicated that the  ten-day timeframe proposed by HB
396 does not affect the ACS one way or the other.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG,  returning to the  issue of how much  money would                                                               
be generated by  the surcharge proposed by HB  396, surmised that                                                               
approximately half  of the DPS's  estimate would come  in through                                                               
APD  DWI arrests.    He noted  that  HB 396  does  not outline  a                                                               
specific mechanism  for collecting and distributing  the proposed                                                               
surcharge, although the DPS has  suggested that the mechanism for                                                               
current surcharges be used.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STAMBAUGH  confirmed that  the  suggestion  is to  have  the                                                               
surcharges  proposed by  HB  396 appropriated  to  the APSC,  the                                                               
board  of which  would  then determine  which communities  should                                                               
receive those funds.  In response  to a question, he relayed that                                                               
the  APSC has  11  members, including  several  police chiefs;  a                                                               
deputy  police chief;  the commissioners  from the  Department of                                                               
Public Safety and the Department  of Corrections; the director of                                                               
Community Corrections  in Anchorage; and "civilian"  members from                                                               
several communities.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1396                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG   voiced  some   reluctance  to  turn   over  the                                                               
allocation process  to the APSC,  and suggested that  that aspect                                                               
of  HB 396  should be  discussed further.   He  asked whether  it                                                               
would  be  possible  to,  in effect,  return  surcharges  to  the                                                               
communities from which they were generated.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  remarked that HB  396 states that  the money                                                               
from  surcharges shall  go directly  into the  general fund,  and                                                               
opined  that  the  current discussion  appears  to  be  seriously                                                               
treading  into  the  realm  of dedicated  funds,  which  are  not                                                               
allowed  under the  Alaska  State Constitution.    He added  that                                                               
although  perhaps  legally  "it"  isn't  a  dedicated  fund,  the                                                               
legislature  often  sets  up "quasi  dedicated  funds"  to  which                                                               
general funds are appropriated.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked Mr. Weller  to explain where the money would                                                               
go according to HB 396.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WELLER  said that as proposed  by HB 396, the  money would be                                                               
deposited into the general fund  - separately accounted for - and                                                               
then appropriated  to the Alaska alcohol  offense equipment fund,                                                               
from which  the legislature would  then appropriate money  out of                                                               
for the  DPS and municipalities.   So  there would really  be two                                                               
appropriations as proposed by HB 396,  he remarked:  one into the                                                               
fund and one out of the fund.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   ROKEBERG   said   that  although   he   understands   the                                                               
constitutional   argument   regarding    dedicated   funds,   the                                                               
legislature often  sets up similar  mechanisms as  need requires;                                                               
it is up to the legislature to  decide whether there is a need to                                                               
do  so for  this particular  purpose.   "The  surcharges ...  are                                                               
controversial, and right now I'm  concerned because they are kind                                                               
of stepping on other things," he added.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  noted that legislation reported  out of                                                               
committee   earlier   -   HB   281  -   provides   for   a   less                                                               
constitutionally   suspect  manner   by  which   the  state   and                                                               
municipalities can  recover costs pertaining to  convictions, and                                                               
suggested  that  perhaps  funds  for  the  purchase  of  alcohol-                                                               
offense-related equipment could be  acquired via that legislation                                                               
instead of HB 396.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL, referring  to the  APSC's administrative                                                               
costs, asked what those entail.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STAMBAUGH said  that those  costs  include the  cost of  the                                                               
instructors who  provide training, and salaries  for himself, his                                                               
secretary, an  administrative clerk, and a  training coordinator;                                                               
those  costs  do not,  however,  include  the cost  of  officers'                                                               
attendance at such training.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1040                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  again asked  whether  it  would be  feasible  to                                                               
return  surcharges directly  to the  communities from  which they                                                               
came, and suggested that perhaps the  state could pay a small fee                                                               
to the  APSC to cover  the administrative cost of  collecting and                                                               
allocating those surcharge monies.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. STAMBAUGH  said he  would have to  consult with  "our finance                                                               
people [and] the court"; a lot  of planning would have to go into                                                               
that because  of the need  to track the collection  of surcharges                                                               
in  each jurisdiction,  and  that would  be  difficult right  now                                                               
without the ACS having a new [tracking] system online.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  suggested  that perhaps  the  legislation  could                                                               
provide  "that the  municipality could  do  it -  could make  the                                                               
collection."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STAMBAUGH  said that  "on  municipal  charges, they  can  do                                                               
that," but not for state charges.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  suggested that perhaps 90  percent of the                                                               
surcharge  proposed  by  HB  396  could  be  given  back  to  the                                                               
community that  collects it, and  the remaining 10  percent could                                                               
go into the general fund.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ROKEBERG  remarked that  that  suggestion  has merit;  "we                                                               
could even make  it a local-option deal," which  would provide an                                                               
incentive  to   municipalities  that   actually  use   their  own                                                               
ordinances to prosecute.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN  noted that  he has  concerns with  that idea                                                               
because it would  give law enforcement agencies  an incentive "to                                                               
make their quota."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG pointed  out that it would also take  the heat off                                                               
the  state to  pay  for  the judicial  system.    He likened  the                                                               
suggestion to:   "revenue sharing with a twist."   In response to                                                               
a question  from Representative  Meyer, Chair  Rokeberg mentioned                                                               
that he would  not be comfortable moving HB 396  out of the House                                                               
Judiciary Standing Committee without  knowing that the funds from                                                               
the surcharges would "find the proper home."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WELLER said  that regardless of how the  committee decides to                                                               
allocate funds  generated by  HB 396, the  committee may  want to                                                               
consider  a new  fund  source because  essentially  HB 396  would                                                               
collect money  for a specific purpose  and allocate it back.   In                                                               
conclusion he noted that the DPS supports the intent of HB 396.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that HB 396 would be held over.                                                                        

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